[450] Thinking out loud: 2M antenna installation

Sun Feb 2 11:21:27 EST 2014

Bob,

Thought you would have info. The work you and N1SAG did is
applicable to what I would try to do. The antenna will
always be horizontal. I may do a pilot with a three element
as that will be a lot easier and provide proof of principle.
I think that I want to get the two meter beam up and the
station running sometime in the spring. I have a carpenter
friend who will help with the installation. Not sure how
high up it will be. Probably thirty feet above ground level.
The wind, ice and subzero temperatures really stress things.
My installation of the Cobra Ultralight  would have been up
for two or three years in CT. It came down during an icy
stretch of windy subzero temperatures. Our low so far was
-18 F, not corrected for wind chill. We get stretches of 1
to 4 below zero, uncorrected for wind chill. The
temperatures don't bother me, I just stay in if it is close
to 20 below. It puts antenna installation in another
category altogether. I already bought some grease for
mechanical things that is good to -40. I will have to make
sure all the rotators have low temperature grease. 

I expect I should be able to get to CT on 2M SSB. I would
like to have the 2M beam up, the HF dipole and HF vertical
up by summer. I plan to put a 40 M loop up that should also
do well on 10 M. I just have to make sure nothing is located
where a moose might get tangled up. We have an assortment of
critters that run through the yard. Got a moose on game
camera about ten feet from our front door. We saw a mama
bear and cub within thirty feet of the house. I think I
scared them away. There is also a bobcat that has been
running around in the yard, perhaps after squirrels and
birds. 

Will keep you posted on experiments and try testing things
with you where possible.

Made contact with a Texas station on 28.400 MHz a little
while ago. I have been putting out calls by voice and eCW.
Will be monitoring that frequency for a while.

George

From: 450-bounces at lists.vhfwiki.com
[mailto:450-bounces at lists.vhfwiki.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2014 10:42 AM
To: 450
Subject: Re: [450] Thinking out loud: 2M antenna
installation

George,

Simplest answer, whatever works.

That being said, Dave, N1SAG, and I did extensive testing on
432 with his pair of yagis mounted side by side (like mine)
horizontally.  He was in a bit of a pit, and the thought was
if he had elevation adjustment he might be able to
manipulate the manner by which his signal propagated over
his "horizon".  In short, he never was able to achieve the
desired or expected results.  His observation was that there
was virtually no difference within the range that
"worked"...meaning if he had the elevation anywhere between
just below level up to some angle (don't remember
specifically what that was, he would have a signal and
adjustment would not vary the level within that range.
Outside that range he had nothing.  This is one guy, in one
set of circumstances, but we were both quite frankly
surprised.  

Further, WA2WEJ had his single yagi on an elevation rotor
for vertical to horizontal excursions, and often adjusted
somewhere between to see if there was ever a circumstance
where it would be helpful.  The only time it was useful was
when the need arose to work to differently polarized signals
at once without major degradation.  He found that 45 degrees
didn't seriously attenuate either signal,  Your mileage may
vary.  You may even find an eggbeater may be just the ticket
for this one elusive signal, as Tom has found with the Larry
contact.  Berlin Larry has used a stacked "double diamond"
antenna to propagate over a major obstruction and has had
decent results.  Then there is the phenomenon noted while
parked at work, all Waterbury stations pointed at me, and
moving 8 inches forward or backward brings up one and drops
out another.

In short, EXPERIMENT, EXPERIMENT, EXPERIMENT!!!

Good luck and let me know how it works out!

Bob

On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 9:38 AM, George Andrews
<gandrews at ntplx.net <mailto:gandrews at ntplx.net> > wrote:

Group,

My first thought is to direct the question to you Bob.
Others may have practical experience with the concept.

I can't reach the Mt. Washington repeater from my house.
Apparently I am somehow in the shadow of it. My 2M antenna
will be 2M9. 9 elements on 14 feet. One would ordinarily
install the antenna such that it is perfectly horizontal. I
am wondering what the result would be to install it slightly
off horizontal. Maybe as much as 10 degrees upwardly
directed. I do plan to research net sources of info on this
topic.

I used a 4 element beam and had fun bouncing signals off
airplanes when in Seymour CT. Got to a couple of repeaters
in NYS off the deck using an HT. It takes effort to track
the plane, but not impossible for short QSO's. 

Perhaps someone has an EME setup has tried this to see what
the impact is.

George

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