[450] More tales from Amerika !!

Sun Oct 27 09:56:02 EDT 2013

True, George. I should have qualified my statement...
obviously I have not had to live under a dictatorship (unless you count My mom growing up)....

And I certainly appreciate your right to get up on your soapbox.

You should therefore expect that I will have something to say in reply.

And I respect your practical experience with different philosophies, it appears greater then my own. However, I do have a degree with a minor in Western Civilization, so I have a little understanding of these things as well.

And I would also defend your right to say whatever you want...as long as it doesn’t reach the point of causing damage to others.

And I do think all of this RIght-Wing Hatred IS causing damage to our culture...but I don’t suppose to have the answers as to what we do about it.

You and I are obviously a microcosm of our society at large...diametrically opposed  in our political views. But I hope we don’t follow our leaders in their complete unwillingness to see the others point of view and find a common understanding of the issues.

Peace.

P.S How's the weather up there? Have you had the same drought like conditions we are all experiencing? Do you have any water on your property...stream, creek etc.?

From: George Andrews 
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 9:30 PM
To: 450 at lists.vhfwiki.com 
Subject: Re: [450] More tales from Amerika !!

Richard,

I did not know you lived under a fascist regime or two! Your comments addressed to others imply experience of life under a fascist dictatorship. 

I am familiar enough with history to see the rise, decay and fall of a number of culture and societies.

And yes, it is easy to sit back and criticize our government. I do that from knowledge of the history of our way of life and the various philosophies which gave rise to the thinking that was the foundation from which our government came. I will agree with you, much of what I and others might say will sound “funny” to those who do not know or understand history. 

I am very familiar with Socialism, Communism and Fascism. I have read Mao, Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, Adolf Hitler and Communist Party USA stuff. I am familiar with the early American Labor movement (Wobblies, Socialist Workers Party etc) In my early twenties I considered myself to be a Socialist. In the college days I hung out with the radical left. The circle consisted of CPUSA, Socialist Workers Party, Weathermen, Black Student Union, Black Panthers, Women’s lib etc. As I studied all these various “philosophies”, I began to see that all of these “groups” placed a higher value on the state rather than the individual. Because of the knowledge of history, I began to realize that this thinking was in conflict with the thinking of our founding fathers. So my thinking changed to a Thomas Paine anarchist. I am now more libertarian.

I was on speaking terms with CPUSA folks. One was a presidential candidate, the other just a regular guy. I would invite him out to shoot an AK47 because of the heated dialog that would follow. It was interesting. It provide opportunity to stay in tune with how CPUSA people think (somewhat different from 

So Rich, you describe yourself as a progressive. As such, are you in favor of redistribution of wealth (your income belongs to the state… from each according to ability, to each according to need). Do you believe the state should make your health care decisions for you? Do you believe in private property or collective ownership? Are you in favor of free speech, or should it be restricted to only that which is politically correct? Many believe that only speech that is politically correct/acceptable should be permitted. Any other speech is to be repressed. Simply put, as it stands today, progressivism places the state at the top of the pyramid. Individual rights are those granted by the state. Principally, the individual must serve the state. You agree with this oversimplified concept?

I believe that the individual is at the top of the pyramid. Individuals form governments to serve our needs. The power and authority given to government are very limited. As an individual, I can’t build a road to go from New Haven to Hartford. But there are other individuals who have a similar need. So we gather together and form a government to take care of needs that we cannot supply as individuals. And always, the government serves the people. We basically hire them to supply our needs. They are in fact “public servants”. If you can find a copy “Oxford History of the American People” is a great read. 

Rich, we are probably opposites in thinking in most things. However, I believe in and would defend your right to express your thoughts. Additionally, everyone has a right to a soapbox. Would you do likewise for those who differently than you do? Many progressives give lip service to “embracing diversity”. But that is all it is…lip service. You seem to be ridiculing people who might think differently than you. Maybe I read you wrong.

George

From: 450-bounces at lists.vhfwiki.com [mailto:450-bounces at lists.vhfwiki.com] On Behalf Of Rich
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 8:16 PM
To: 450 at lists.vhfwiki.com
Subject: Re: [450] More tales from Amerika !!

Wow....you folks really should have had to live under a fascist dictatorship or two. Then you would know how silly some of the things you say really sound. 

Bottom line is, its easy to sit back and criticize our way of life / governing...because the freedoms we have allow you to do that.

But you really should know how funny it all sounds to a reasonable person! I mean come on, what today even comes close to taking your first-born son.... I know you were just playing devils advocate, Bob...but really!

And if you want to talk about History, George....maybe you should start by understanding the difference between “Socialism” and Communism/Fascism...which is what you are alluding to.

Come on, some other reasonable people need to back me up on this....hello??!!

Richard, your friendly neighborhood progressive

From: Bob 

Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 5:26 PM

To: 450 

Subject: Re: [450] More tales from Amerika !!

Humans have stayed relatively the same since the beginning of time (as they know it).

The games and the implements change a bit, but the misery they bestow upon others and the motives remain unchanged.

The government's policies as well...thinly veiled versions of taking the firstborn son, having their way with your daughter, and guaranteeing involuntary servitude by whatever means necessary continues.

On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 4:26 PM, George Andrews <gandrews at ntplx.net> wrote:

The Socialist “Utopian Dream” is well on its way. The Emperor is building his Praetorian Guard. The USSA (United Socialist States of Amerika) is not far away.  Want to know the future? Know history!

From: 450-bounces at lists.vhfwiki.com [mailto:450-bounces at lists.vhfwiki.com] On Behalf Of John Foege
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 12:24 PM
To: 144.450 Mailing List
Subject: [450] More tales from Amerika !!

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/24/d-c-businessman-faces-2-years-in-prison-for-possessing-unregistered-ammo/

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