[450] 222 ponderings, GEORGE take note!

[Bob]

Hi George and all,

Keep in mind, I was up and running on 220 at the old location, so I know what to expect regarding propogation. 
My assessment of the band is that given the same path and comparable equipment, it will do pretty much the same thing in the same way, only with some degree of "enhancement" that seems ever present.
Based on this, I already know that my 10 elements on 10 feet should be sufficient to handle my "horizontal weak signal" tasks, as that arrangement (despite being half the antenna) performed similarly to my 2 meter horizontal set up with regard to range and signal reports, and the activity on that polarization will likely always be "net nights and contests" and occasional "Oh, I have 220, want to try it?" stuff.
Vertically speaking, If it were a busy band, I would simply plant a pair of 10 element yagis on the cross boom between the 6 meter vertical yagis and be done with it (again, duplicating my array of choice on 2 meter vertical), however I don't expect the activity would warrant the extra load and space requirements.

I guess I'm just trying to get a handle on what would be best for now to work the activity that exists and to be ready for some that MIGHT exist if we are able to promote some activity.  I've found one of the best ways to do that is to set an example as to how well the band CAN work, and then others will follow.....
Using this rationale, I am hoping to breathe a little life into things by entering the local scene with a formidable enough signal to work all that are presently there, as well as to prove to those that aren't making enough effort for it to work that a step or two "up" would certainly produce results.
I'm just not sure if the amp and a decent gain omni placed nicely on top of the stack here would be enough to do that.  Going to the beam would give me something to do if the local scene bombs, but it may be too much if I want to set an example of "obtainable performance".

As far as the choice of omni goes, it comes down to the Bozak and the CX-333.

Bozak good points: no caps to blow, proven 2x5/8 design in a two piece "screw together" (same as the Antron) set up that is light, durable, and totally fool proof.  Plug and play.  Relatively cheap as compared to the Comet (roughly $86.00).

Bozak "bad" points: "might" be lesser performer than the CX-333 due to the "Japanese magic" factor (I'll explain further down), is electrically shorter, and less versatile than the Comet.

Comet good points: 3x5/8 design is electrically speaking, the "longest" antenna being offered for 222 in a vertical omni presently. (it should be noted however that it is not the ONLY one) 
"Japanese magic"....
for some reason, a "multibanded" Japanese antenna by Comet or Diamond always outperforms a traditional single banded antenna of the "same" design (2x5/8, 3x5/8, etc).   Best as I can figure, this is a "by product" of it's obligatory multiband components that must just by chance force the "current points" to be more advantageously placed than the "traditional" design.
Flexibility.....by using no more space than the Bozak, I could add a reasonable gain 2 meter vertical to the upstairs station, as well as free up the GP-9 (to be mounted over the garage some time in the future) for the downstairs station's exclusive use (I'd been fretting over how to keep sharing the GP-9 from being a problem).

Comet "bad" points: the complexity of the multibanded design requires the inherent "weak link", the disc capacitor.  While my max power at the shack end will be 150 watts, this has been enough to "pop" Japanese models rated at 200 watts before, and the Comet is only rated at 120.
The price...lowest I've found so far is roughly $160.00

Others....
Hustler makes a triple 5/8 single band antenna with great power handling and sturdy design, however it's not cheap and it is not light enough for my mounting locations.
Jetstream's "knock off" design gets bad reviews (specifically as compared to the CX-333 I might add), and my experience (as well as many other we all know) is that the low price knock offs are plagued with quality control issues.

Now, (George) to the unanswered questions:

How many of your group are on or capable of being on?

Where are they located, and what are they using?
 


----- Original Message ----- 
  From: George Andrews 
  To: 144.450 Mailing List 
  Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 12:11 PM
  Subject: Re: [450] 222 ponderings, GEORGE take note!


  Bob,

  Repeater activity seems close to two meters fairly often. There is of course less repeaters on 220. It is hard to compare the two. Ran mobile for a couple of months and activity levels were close (80% compared to 2 M) West Haven and Milford repeaters are inactive presently, don't know why. It also looks like owners are not repairing 220 repeaters when they fail. Something to keep in mind as it may reflect general thoughts about 220. I like the Isopole, Covers a pretty good area in terms of repeaters. There is not enough activity to determine simplex performance unfortunately. The only data I have found indicates 3dbd gain, nothing spectacular. I think the angle of radiation is what makes this antenna decent. The CX333 looks great in terms of gain! Plus you have triband capability with pretty good gain figures. I don't know what the cost differential is between Bozak and CX333. I would likely go with the CX333 as I don't think you could do any better. Have you looked at the JetStream antenna? http://www.jetstream-usa.com/jtb5.shtml

  My advice is to go with a vertical to start with. See what you can do with repeaters and see how simplex activity is from your location. From what I have seen, there are days when the band will amaze you. Other days, the performance will feel like 70 or 33 cm! Get some operating experience with a decent vertical and judge for yourself whether the band warrants any further effort. 

  I have a four element end mount Cushcraft antenna. It is on mast only and not very high and has limited direction. I plan to put that in a better location and have a rotor. Once I get that up, I will see how things perform with that. Once that is up, I do not plan to develop the 220 station any further. I originally planned to pick up another Jetstream radio for the truck. There is not enough simplex activity to justify the expense. If I want to use repeaters, 2 M/70 cm is all that is neccesary. If I want to do 220 from the truck, I will just move the radio.

  Remember 220 Tuesday nights.

  I have a foldable jPole for 220 and was using a coax groundplane. I won't part with the jPole and the gp went into the trasdh a while ago. K1FBI may have something he might sell.

  Let me know when you (or anyone else) are ready to do any testing.

  George

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Bob 
    To: 144.450 Mailing List 
    Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 12:52 PM
    Subject: [450] 222 ponderings, GEORGE take note!


    I'm trying to decide how much space to allocate to 220 vertical, and what level of gain to bother with....

    Simplest option is a Bozak 2x5/8.....SOME gain, sturdy, no caps to blow out, permanently flat swr, and wouldn't take up any space allocated for something else (on top of the 2 meter stack).

    Next step up would be a CX-333.....could go in the same spot, take up the same space, offer slightly more gain, also could be tied through a triplexer to the upstairs station for 2 meter vertical option and the downstairs station for 440 vertical.  Rather expensive, but gets good reviews.

    Next step would be a vertical yagi of the smaller "end mount" variety....more gain, but takes up more mast space.
    If I do this however, I may as well go with a longer yagi and get more gain as it wouldn't take up any more mast space....perhaps I could mount it slightly off center on the crossboom for the 2x3 6 meter setup.  I already have the 10 element homebrew, so this would be a fairly quick fix with minimal outlay.

    I guess what it comes down to is just how much activity is really happening right now? 
     How many people are in George's group and at what distance and how widely scattered are they?  
    If it is a small group and fairly close by, a small stick would suffice.  On the other hand, if activity is limited, a long yagi could give me something to do...mapping out the distant repeaters and such......and maybe even being able to check into the "Pakrats" FM net......

    Will anyone else from our group be joining the game?

    Any thoughts?

    Anything already discarded and available in the "stick" variety among your group George?


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