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!!</title></head><body>
<div><x-tab> </x-tab>Here
here!</div>
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<blockquote type="cite" cite>Richard,</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>I did not know you lived under a fascist
regime or two! Your comments addressed to others imply experience of
life under a fascist dictatorship.</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>I am familiar enough with history to see
the rise, decay and fall of a number of culture and
societies.</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>And yes, it is easy to sit back and
criticize our government. I do that from knowledge of the history of
our way of life and the various philosophies which gave rise to the
thinking that was the foundation from which our government came. I
will agree with you, much of what I and others might say will sound
"funny" to those who do not know or understand history.</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>I am very familiar with Socialism,
Communism and Fascism. I have read Mao, Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, Adolf
Hitler and Communist Party USA stuff. I am familiar with the early
American Labor movement (Wobblies, Socialist Workers Party etc) In my
early twenties I considered myself to be a Socialist. In the college
days I hung out with the radical left. The circle consisted of CPUSA,
Socialist Workers Party, Weathermen, Black Student Union, Black
Panthers, Women's lib etc. As I studied all these various
"philosophies", I began to see that all of these "groups" placed
a higher value on the state rather than the individual. Because of the
knowledge of history, I began to realize that this thinking was in
conflict with the thinking of our founding fathers. So my thinking
changed to a Thomas Paine anarchist. I am now more
libertarian.</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>I was on speaking terms with CPUSA folks.
One was a presidential candidate, the other just a regular guy. I
would invite him out to shoot an AK47 because of the heated dialog
that would follow. It was interesting. It provide opportunity to stay
in tune with how CPUSA people think (somewhat different
from</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>So Rich, you describe yourself as a
progressive. As such, are you in favor of redistribution of wealth
(your income belongs to the stateŠ from each according to ability,
to each according to need). Do you believe the state should make your
health care decisions for you? Do you believe in private property or
collective ownership? Are you in favor of free speech, or should it be
restricted to only that which is politically correct? Many believe
that only speech that is politically correct/acceptable should be
permitted. Any other speech is to be repressed. Simply put, as it
stands today, progressivism places the state at the top of the
pyramid. Individual rights are those granted by the state.
Principally, the individual must serve the state. You agree with this
oversimplified concept?</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>I believe that the individual is at the
top of the pyramid. Individuals form governments to serve our needs.
The power and authority given to government are very limited. As an
individual, I can't build a road to go from New Haven to Hartford.
But there are other individuals who have a similar need. So we gather
together and form a government to take care of needs that we cannot
supply as individuals. And always, the government serves the people.
We basically hire them to supply our needs. They are in fact "public
servants". If you can find a copy "Oxford History of the American
People" is a great read.</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Rich, we are probably opposites in
thinking in most things. However, I believe in and would defend your
right to express your thoughts. Additionally, everyone has a right to
a soapbox. Would you do likewise for those who differently than you
do? Many progressives give lip service to "embracing diversity".
But that is all it isŠlip service. You seem to be ridiculing people
who might think differently than you. Maybe I read you
wrong.</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>George</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><b>From:</b>
450-bounces@lists.vhfwiki.com
[mailto:450-bounces@lists.vhfwiki.com]<b> On Behalf Of</b> Rich<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 26, 2013 8:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 450@lists.vhfwiki.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [450] More tales from Amerika !!</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Wow....you folks really should have had
to live under a fascist dictatorship or two. Then you would know how
silly some of the things you say really sound.</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Bottom line is, its easy to sit back and
criticize our way of life / governing...because the freedoms we have
allow you to do that.</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>But you really should know how funny it
all sounds to a reasonable person! I mean come on, what today even
comes close to taking your first-born son.... I know you were just
playing devils advocate, Bob...but really!</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>And if you want to talk about History,
George....maybe you should start by understanding the difference
between "Socialism" and Communism/Fascism...which is what you are
alluding to.</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Come on, some other reasonable people
need to back me up on this....hello??!!</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Richard, your friendly neighborhood
progressive</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><b>From:</b> <a
href="mailto:n1ujs@toast.net">Bob</a></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 26, 2013
5:26 PM</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:450@lists.vhfwiki.com">450</a></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><b>Subject:</b> Re: [450] More tales from
Amerika !!</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Humans have stayed relatively the same
since the beginning of time (as they know it).</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>The games and the implements change a
bit, but the misery they bestow upon others and the motives remain
unchanged.</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>The government's policies as
well...thinly veiled versions of taking the firstborn son, having
their way with your daughter, and guaranteeing involuntary servitude
by whatever means necessary continues.</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 4:26 PM, George
Andrews <<a
href="mailto:gandrews@ntplx.net">gandrews@ntplx.net</a>>
wrote:</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>The Socialist "Utopian Dream" is well
on its way. The Emperor is building his Praetorian Guard. The USSA
(United Socialist States of Amerika) is not far away. Want to
know the future? Know history!</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><b>From:</b> <a
href="mailto:450-bounces@lists.vhfwiki.com"
>450-bounces@lists.vhfwiki.com</a> [mailto:<a
href="mailto:450-bounces@lists.vhfwiki.com"
>450-bounces@lists.vhfwiki.com</a>]<b> On Behalf Of</b> John Foege<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 26, 2013 12:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 144.450 Mailing List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [450] More tales from Amerika !!</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><a
href=
"http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/24/d-c-businessman-faces-2-years-in-prison-for-possessing-unregistered-ammo/"><span
></span
>http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/24/d-c-businessman-faces-2-y<span
></span>ears-in-prison-for-possessing-unregistered-ammo/</a></blockquote
>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br>
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<a
href="http://lists.vhfwiki.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/450"
>http://lists.vhfwiki.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/450</a></blockquote
>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>
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<blockquote type="cite"
cite>_______________________________________________<br>
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>http://lists.vhfwiki.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/450</a></blockquote
>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br>
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(Keep It Simple Stupid.) Ha!</b></font></div>
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