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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Richard,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I did not know you lived under a fascist regime or two! Your comments addressed to others imply experience of life under a fascist dictatorship. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I am familiar enough with history to see the rise, decay and fall of a number of culture and societies.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>And yes, it is easy to sit back and criticize our government. I do that from knowledge of the history of our way of life and the various philosophies which gave rise to the thinking that was the foundation from which our government came. I will agree with you, much of what I and others might say will sound “funny” to those who do not know or understand history. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I am very familiar with Socialism, Communism and Fascism. I have read Mao, Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, Adolf Hitler and Communist Party USA stuff. I am familiar with the early American Labor movement (Wobblies, Socialist Workers Party etc) In my early twenties I considered myself to be a Socialist. In the college days I hung out with the radical left. The circle consisted of CPUSA, Socialist Workers Party, Weathermen, Black Student Union, Black Panthers, Women’s lib etc. As I studied all these various “philosophies”, I began to see that all of these “groups” placed a higher value on the state rather than the individual. Because of the knowledge of history, I began to realize that this thinking was in conflict with the thinking of our founding fathers. So my thinking changed to a Thomas Paine anarchist. I am now more libertarian.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I was on speaking terms with CPUSA folks. One was a presidential candidate, the other just a regular guy. I would invite him out to shoot an AK47 because of the heated dialog that would follow. It was interesting. It provide opportunity to stay in tune with how CPUSA people think (somewhat different from <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So Rich, you describe yourself as a progressive. As such, are you in favor of redistribution of wealth (your income belongs to the state… from each according to ability, to each according to need). Do you believe the state should make your health care decisions for you? Do you believe in private property or collective ownership? Are you in favor of free speech, or should it be restricted to only that which is politically correct? Many believe that only speech that is politically correct/acceptable should be permitted. Any other speech is to be repressed. Simply put, as it stands today, progressivism places the state at the top of the pyramid. Individual rights are those granted by the state. Principally, the individual must serve the state. You agree with this oversimplified concept?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I believe that the individual is at the top of the pyramid. Individuals form governments to serve our needs. The power and authority given to government are very limited. As an individual, I can’t build a road to go from New Haven to Hartford. But there are other individuals who have a similar need. So we gather together and form a government to take care of needs that we cannot supply as individuals. And always, the government serves the people. We basically hire them to supply our needs. They are in fact “public servants”. If you can find a copy “Oxford History of the American People” is a great read. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Rich, we are probably opposites in thinking in most things. However, I believe in and would defend your right to express your thoughts. Additionally, everyone has a right to a soapbox. Would you do likewise for those who differently than you do? Many progressives give lip service to “embracing diversity”. But that is all it is…lip service. You seem to be ridiculing people who might think differently than you. Maybe I read you wrong.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>George<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 450-bounces@lists.vhfwiki.com [mailto:450-bounces@lists.vhfwiki.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rich<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 26, 2013 8:16 PM<br><b>To:</b> 450@lists.vhfwiki.com<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [450] More tales from Amerika !!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Wow....you folks really should have had to live under a fascist dictatorship or two. Then you would know how silly some of the things you say really sound. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Bottom line is, its easy to sit back and criticize our way of life / governing...because the freedoms we have allow you to do that.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>But you really should know how funny it all sounds to a reasonable person! I mean come on, what today even comes close to taking your first-born son.... I know you were just playing devils advocate, Bob...but really!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>And if you want to talk about History, George....maybe you should start by understanding the difference between “Socialism” and Communism/Fascism...which is what you are alluding to.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Come on, some other reasonable people need to back me up on this....hello??!!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Richard, your friendly neighborhood progressive<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:n1ujs@toast.net" title="n1ujs@toast.net">Bob</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Sent:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> Saturday, October 26, 2013 5:26 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>To:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:450@lists.vhfwiki.com" title="450@lists.vhfwiki.com">450</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Subject:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> Re: [450] More tales from Amerika !!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Humans have stayed relatively the same since the beginning of time (as they know it).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>The games and the implements change a bit, but the misery they bestow upon others and the motives remain unchanged.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>The government's policies as well...thinly veiled versions of taking the firstborn son, having their way with your daughter, and guaranteeing involuntary servitude by whatever means necessary continues.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 4:26 PM, George Andrews <<a href="mailto:gandrews@ntplx.net" target="_blank">gandrews@ntplx.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The Socialist “Utopian Dream” is well on its way. The Emperor is building his Praetorian Guard. The USSA (United Socialist States of Amerika) is not far away. Want to know the future? Know history!</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:450-bounces@lists.vhfwiki.com" target="_blank">450-bounces@lists.vhfwiki.com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:450-bounces@lists.vhfwiki.com" target="_blank">450-bounces@lists.vhfwiki.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Foege<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 26, 2013 12:24 PM<br><b>To:</b> 144.450 Mailing List<br><b>Subject:</b> [450] More tales from Amerika !!</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'><a href="http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/24/d-c-businessman-faces-2-years-in-prison-for-possessing-unregistered-ammo/" target="_blank">http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/24/d-c-businessman-faces-2-years-in-prison-for-possessing-unregistered-ammo/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><br>_______________________________________________<br>450 mailing list<br><a href="mailto:450@lists.vhfwiki.com">450@lists.vhfwiki.com</a><br><a href="http://lists.vhfwiki.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/450" target="_blank">http://lists.vhfwiki.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/450</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=3 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>450 mailing list<br><a href="mailto:450@lists.vhfwiki.com">450@lists.vhfwiki.com</a><br><a href="http://lists.vhfwiki.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/450">http://lists.vhfwiki.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/450</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>