[450] Thinking out loud: 2M antenna installation

Sun Feb 2 11:51:37 EST 2014

Let's give it a try! I can do voice or eCW. I will give you
a call on 28.400. I had one QSO with Paris Texas so far.

-----Original Message-----
From: 450-bounces at lists.vhfwiki.com
[mailto:450-bounces at lists.vhfwiki.com] On Behalf Of William
Knapp / KC1WJ
Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2014 11:33 AM
To: 450 at lists.vhfwiki.com
Subject: Re: [450] Thinking out loud: 2M antenna
installation

George and the group --

I just have a vertical for 10, but I have a pretty decent
shot to the north and can muster up about 700 watts.

Quoting David McKenzie <k1fsy at vhfwiki.com>:

> try to work out a sched with bill, he's always on 10
meters and he has 
> a big amp
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 11:21 AM, George Andrews
<gandrews at ntplx.net> wrote:
>
>> Bob,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thought you would have info. The work you and N1SAG did
is applicable 
>> to what I would try to do. The antenna will always be
horizontal. I 
>> may do a pilot with a three element as that will be a lot
easier and 
>> provide proof of principle. I think that I want to get
the two meter 
>> beam up and the station running sometime in the spring. I
have a 
>> carpenter friend who will help with the installation. Not
sure how 
>> high up it will be. Probably thirty feet above ground
level. The 
>> wind, ice and subzero temperatures really stress things.
My 
>> installation of the Cobra Ultralight  would have been up
for two or 
>> three years in CT. It came down during an icy stretch of
windy 
>> subzero temperatures. Our low so far was -18 F, not
corrected for 
>> wind chill. We get stretches of 1 to 4 below zero,
uncorrected for 
>> wind chill. The temperatures don't bother me, I just stay
in if it is 
>> close to
>> 20 below. It puts antenna installation in another
category 
>> altogether. I already bought some grease for mechanical
things that 
>> is good to -40. I will have to make sure all the rotators
have low temperature grease.
>>
>>
>>
>> I expect I should be able to get to CT on 2M SSB. I would
like to 
>> have the 2M beam up, the HF dipole and HF vertical up by
summer. I 
>> plan to put a 40 M loop up that should also do well on 10
M. I just 
>> have to make sure nothing is located where a moose might
get tangled 
>> up. We have an assortment of critters that run through
the yard. Got 
>> a moose on game camera about ten feet from our front
door. We saw a 
>> mama bear and cub within thirty feet of the house. I
think I scared 
>> them away. There is also a bobcat that has been running
around in the 
>> yard, perhaps after squirrels and birds.
>>
>>
>>
>> Will keep you posted on experiments and try testing
things with you 
>> where possible.
>>
>>
>>
>> Made contact with a Texas station on 28.400 MHz a little
while ago. I 
>> have been putting out calls by voice and eCW. Will be
monitoring that 
>> frequency for a while.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> George
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* 450-bounces at lists.vhfwiki.com [mailto:
>> 450-bounces at lists.vhfwiki.com] *On Behalf Of *Bob
>> *Sent:* Sunday, February 2, 2014 10:42 AM
>> *To:* 450
>> *Subject:* Re: [450] Thinking out loud: 2M antenna
installation
>>
>>
>>
>> George,
>>
>> Simplest answer, whatever works.
>>
>> That being said, Dave, N1SAG, and I did extensive testing
on 432 with 
>> his pair of yagis mounted side by side (like mine)
horizontally.  He 
>> was in a bit of a pit, and the thought was if he had
elevation 
>> adjustment he might be able to manipulate the manner by
which his 
>> signal propagated over his "horizon".  In short, he never
was able to 
>> achieve the desired or expected results.  His observation
was that 
>> there was virtually no difference within the range that 
>> "worked"...meaning if he had the elevation anywhere
between just 
>> below level up to some angle (don't remember specifically
what that 
>> was, he would have a signal and adjustment would not vary
the level 
>> within that range.  Outside that range he had nothing.
This is one guy, in one set of circumstances, but we were
both quite frankly surprised.
>>
>> Further, WA2WEJ had his single yagi on an elevation rotor
for 
>> vertical to horizontal excursions, and often adjusted
somewhere 
>> between to see if there was ever a circumstance where it
would be 
>> helpful.  The only time it was useful was when the need
arose to work 
>> to differently polarized signals at once without major
degradation.  
>> He found that 45 degrees didn't seriously attenuate
either signal,  
>> Your mileage may vary.  You may even find an eggbeater
may be just 
>> the ticket for this one elusive signal, as Tom has found
with the 
>> Larry contact.  Berlin Larry has used a stacked "double
diamond" 
>> antenna to propagate over a major obstruction and has had
decent 
>> results.  Then there is the phenomenon noted while parked
at work, 
>> all Waterbury stations pointed at me, and moving 8 inches
forward or backward brings up one and drops out another.
>>
>> In short, EXPERIMENT, EXPERIMENT, EXPERIMENT!!!
>>
>> Good luck and let me know how it works out!
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 9:38 AM, George Andrews
<gandrews at ntplx.net> wrote:
>>
>> Group,
>>
>>
>>
>> My first thought is to direct the question to you Bob.
Others may 
>> have practical experience with the concept.
>>
>>
>>
>> I can't reach the Mt. Washington repeater from my house.
Apparently I 
>> am somehow in the shadow of it. My 2M antenna will be
2M9. 9 elements 
>> on 14 feet. One would ordinarily install the antenna such
that it is 
>> perfectly horizontal. I am wondering what the result
would be to 
>> install it slightly off horizontal. Maybe as much as 10
degrees 
>> upwardly directed. I do plan to research net sources of
info on this topic.
>>
>>
>>
>> I used a 4 element beam and had fun bouncing signals off
airplanes 
>> when in Seymour CT. Got to a couple of repeaters in NYS
off the deck using an HT.
>> It takes effort to track the plane, but not impossible
for short QSO's.
>>
>>
>>
>> Perhaps someone has an EME setup has tried this to see
what the impact is.
>>
>>
>>
>> George
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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>

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